Prepar3D v2 News

So, I was very thrilled when I read yesterday about the news on the new v2 on their homepage!

But, at the same time, I started reading various responds on various flight simulator forums and websites, and here’s my take on it:

WHAT A SORRY BUNCH OF WHINERS!!!
Sorry, I just had to say it this way. I *know* not everyone is like that, I read many MANY positive threads on the topic, but I cannot start to comprehend the amount of doubts and negative posts surrounding P3D v2. Even before you tried it out!

There are also forums containing quality posts, one is here, and those guys give a prime example on looking forward to a step forward in our hobby. I won’t name the forum, but “The Facts” around the new sim are just incredible. This thread should be locked and deleted, in my humble opinion. People actually judging the sim WITHOUT even trying it out, WITHOUT looking what is inside or flying in it.

For years now, since 2006, the biggest reasons why people frowned upon FSX was because of it’s performance, so Prepar3D makes a step in (hopefully) right direction into making this better. So people complain. Yay!
Then we complained about terrain system (blurries), so they bring new terrain system. Let’s maybe see how it works before judging, hmm?
Then we complained about autogen performance, so they brought instancing…
We complained about fog cutting into mountains? Well…look at the screenshot!
We complained about the missing startup screen in P3D v1.4? So they made us one…
Need to go on?

And yeah, you will most likely need very strong hardware (this time not CPU only with mediocre GPU, but also a strong GPU as announced by LM) to run it full bells and whistles and even then it might not be really enough, but simulators were always like that! And which game isn’t? Am I missing something, or why are people buying quad Nvidia SLI cards to run some game(s) at insanely high resolutions with highest details? Besides, if I am not mistaken, they did say SLI is coming too…

I can only keep shaking my head and looking forward to this new sim and say one thing:

I am really REALLY thankful we have a developer actually listening to us and developing further the simulator most of us are using (yeah, I am not excluding FS9ers, XPers…). I can’t say anything educated about the simulator as I’m looking forward to getting my hands on it and will only form an opinion then.

One last thing: let’s NOT get into EULA and usage permissions, these have been clarified by LM quite clearly, and everyone can use this sim!

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87 Responses to Prepar3D v2 News

  1. John says:

    There are some who believe that P3d is the work of the Devil and anyone using it will be doomed for evermore..these are the sort of people who will find fault with it no matter how superior it is to FSX (whatever that is…).
    Their loss, They must be lovely to live with, so narrow minded.
    I am happy with V1.4, but I am absolutely gasping to get hold of V2.
    Things can only get even better!

    • Kosta says:

      Hahahaha,
      John, I just wanted to tell you, you made my evening! “Work of the devil” <- LOLLL!!! :-))))))

    • João Alfredo says:

      Hello John, I fully agree with you, I guess weird because some like to find problems, at all, if there is problems, invent one, in Brazil we have a phrase that expresses this “looking horns on the head of a horse.”
      I’m also the vigil by V 2.0 !

  2. markfire says:

    Buy it, try it, tweak it, voila a new sim is born : )

  3. Andrew 737 says:

    I agree with you 100% Kosta

    There is ‘nout queer as folk!’

  4. markfire says:

    On a more sensible note, i think V2 should bring lots of goodies for us mere mortals to play with and it can only get better, can’t it?

  5. markfire says:

    ‘nout queer as folk’ very northern Mate : )

  6. RogerDodger says:

    Excellent Post Kosta, totally agree with you. It really is tiresome reading and listening to the negative comments concerning Prepar3d. I even read on one Forum how a flight simmer would not buy Prepard3d because it is being released by LM, a company that produces military warfare products. Good grief, some of these guys might be happier on a Commodore 64 and Flight Simulator II. The good thing is for every negative comment there are probably hundreds of positive ones that do not get published/ posted. Bring on Prepar3d, the future of Flight Simulator looks terrific.
    Thanks.

  7. John M. Helms says:

    I love P3D and adopted it as soon as it came out…
    everything worked…many things in FSX did not
    …I have just bought a new sim computer and upgraded
    to P3d v 1.4…a complete reinstall….glad to hear about
    v 2…will adopt as soon as available…just can’t believe
    coming out at end of this year…if so, why even bother
    v 1.4?…bet they meant later in 2014…whenever it is,
    I’ll get it…onward…

  8. Hightower says:

    Agree with you 110% Kosta. Said forum Im sure your referring to, is a constant struggle and demoralizing. My only regrets for P3D are that PMDG a major player refuses to cooperate and denies completely installation into Prepar3d since most of my flying are with their aircraft. But I guess I have to swallow and accept and find something else. But this new sim is super exciting. And most 3PDs are onboard as well which makes it even better for compatibility of currenly owned products.

  9. Afterburner says:

    Yes, reading some of those negative comments make you feel as if these people have a predetermined abhorrence toward P3D. I bet that if the same screenshots and features were announced as part of FS11 by Microsoft, those same people would be partying all day long! (Not realizing that their loyalty is directed toward the same company that has abandoned us serious simmers long ago and never provided dedicated customer support.)

    With P3D, on the other hand, I am glad that the development team is interacting with the users and listening to their wishes. This, alongside with their focus on improving performance, should prompt every simmer to bundle their support and energy onto P3D. And remember, the version 2.0 is by no means going to be the last! We can expect additional improvements and features way beyond V2.0!

    And as far as the missing “entertainment” aspect brought up by pessimists: We should applaud Lockheed-Martin that their core target is NOT Jim Joystick, but simmers who are serious about their hobby/job!

    • Kosta says:

      Afterburner,
      Indeed, I like your thoughts, and v2 is of course just the next step. As far as I figured, they called it v2 because it is a revamp of the engine, unlike v1.4, which remained v1 pretty much, with a tweak here and there, but very little new features and not breaking the engine. It was FSX with tweaks basically. v2 is hopefully going to be the next generation…
      And yeah, I also say good for LM to make a non-entertainment product, avoiding P3D being a game. I have always liked being a part of something special, a simulator community, and not being part of a gaming community. In fact, P3D is encouraging younger users to take the joystick, however discouraging it to become yet another flying game out there. It’s just a thought, how you think of it, but nevertheless 🙂

  10. duke6amer says:

    Fantastic Post Kosta,
    I agree entirely & am avoiding all discussion threads on P3D v2 other than the official Lockheed-Martin comm’s. I can’t wait to try it once it is released then lets see how many continue complain. 😉

  11. Ian says:

    Kosta I am with you forever! I am so tired of the fundamentalists who want to remove my right of choice and decision. In far right wing politics maybe, but how on earth something as harmless as flight simming could get people so worked up. Thank heavens burning at the stake has been abolished because you and I, and many others would have gone up in flames. P3D v2.0 has all the potential to be the next great sim. It won’t be perfect as we are not perfect, but it sure reads fantastically and should be a huge leap forward.

    • Kosta says:

      Ian,
      Because simming has become a hobby for many, something they wish to expand their knowledge on and not only fire up yet another game and get a little bit of coin-searching.

      Those who get worked up on the positive side, really show they do care about this hobby. They give positive inputs and actually will try to make things better.

      Those who see it negatively… well, form your opinion, as whatever I write here is going to be too harsh.

      Hehehe, I can remember when I told Tom back in the days I was banned, that I will support Prepar3D (is why I also made a comparison on my blog) and back then that did not go well with him. He was obviously pressured from different sides, and my comparison post that was on AVSIM initially, was moved to my blog and I (along other reasons according to them), I was banned. I was burned if you will, but I did not allow them to erase me (they surely did attempt it with that official statement). Well now, we’ll see what comes 😉

      I say we have a huge leap too, and am looking forward to it!!

  12. Jeff Laurie says:

    As much as I love my FS9 and loved my FSX I will be one of the first ones to order P3D Ver.2.0 I say I loved FSX until it crashed and I bought another one only to find out Microsoft no longer accepts registration for it so I’m out $49.00 and have program that auto fails everytime after fifteen minutes because it’s unregistered.

  13. dogtrack says:

    Used v1.1 through to v1.3 at which point I suspended my subscription. Have been waiting for the release of v2.0 in order to continue. Must say it has come around rather sooner than expected in terms of version releases. However, still looking forward to re-enlisting.

  14. Emin says:

    I’ll probably buy it on the very first day. Sad thing, there’re still lot of people repeating those silly licencing arguments. I am sorry but they’re bunch of idiots really! Not getting tired of saying same thing million times. Because of these idiots, we couldn’t have a proper discussion place for P3d till now. Always some limitation or pressure from moderators.

    And for PMDG, it’s their decision to move p3d or not. But, if v2.0 is really coming with these features, somebody will fill their blank quickly.

    Although updated and patched, P3d 1.4 was still FsX. 2.0 will be a FS11. So, it’ll be like Fs9 and FsX. I have friends still believe Fs9 is much better than FsX. But, look who’s winning at the end. You can’t fight against technology with old weapon.

  15. Alex says:

    Agree 100%, I go back to FS4 and every issue in between and now. In all that time the wingers and whiners seems to grow exponentially with each advance. And vitriol, sheesh! it is a wonder people produce the freeware given the abuse they get subjected to on occasion. Reading the P3D forums can be a downer too, how many times must the Admin there tell people they will not comment upon 3rd party software and direct the query to the producer of that s/w. Who in their right mind would want to admin.
    Oh and apparantly flight-sims are dead you know …….. NOT!
    P3D V2 looks very promising!

  16. geoskylos says:

    I am also with you here Kosta! I am glad that i see progress in FS…But can you explain ‘these have been clarified by LM quite clearly,”..I mean if i am not mistaken big vendors hesitate to develop for P3D. and i don’t think that they don’t need the revenue.

    I think that what they are afraid is to invest in something that will cease to be available to them. What if LM exploits the EULA and decide to make P3D a true closed system?

    If this is clarified , these news are the best!

    • Kosta says:

      How more clear does it need to get? Everyone can use P3D, as long as you meet the EULA and for non entertainment. That has been said by LM, and why pound on it?

      Big vendors – we are talking PMDG and Flight1. There are many more out there, and most of them DO developer for P3D. They sure need the revenue, and once FSX dies in favor of P3D, they will rethink their strategy or they will go down. But all is up to them, not me, I only look into the future.

      Well, Microsoft could have done that too (remember Flight?), so the fear is, if there is fear, unfounded.

      • alain says:

        Hi! Kosta,

        I understand your position but let me make something clear before I start my reply, I DO NOT CARE who will use P3D as I have no dog in this race, get a drink as this will be a long post…lol.

        Some members of another forum suggested to me that I should go to P3D’s forum and ask any questions I would have about the EULA’s, and since I did not want to rely on others interpretations of P3D licenses requirements/EULA I did exactly that, I posted on P3D forum, I started my post very politely by saying that I was not eligible for the academic licenses as I was not in school and was not meeting their requirements for it, I also asked what license was the one for me after I also explained in my post my position regarding the professional license, a mod replied and said that the professional license was for me…..I was surprised because as I said I made it very clear about my position vs their requirements for the professional licenses.

        I followed up with more questions, I asked how and under what requirements/EULA did he (the mod) qualified me after he read what my position was regarding their professional licenses, I also asked if they (P3D) -had any kind of mechanism in place to verify the eligibility of me or whom ever would purchase/use their licenses to be sure that they will do it according to their EULA and licenses requirements.

        I was expecting a courteous answer to my direct and well founded questions, again what I was looking for was a definite answer to stop any misconceptions/interpretations of their requirements/EULA, guess what, my post was deleted and a reply was made to the effect that the EULA will not be discussed anymore….so from that answer here is what I think about P3D (again don’t care who will buy/use their licenses), it is crystal clear to me that P3D do not care about the legal aspect of how their licenses will be used, Kosta, as you said, everybody can buy their licenses BUT it is REGARDLESS of their EULA or requirements as there is NO mechanism from LM to ensure that their license will be bought/used legally according to their EULA or requirements. it may give you and others a clear conscience to say that Quote: “Everyone can use P3D, as long as you meet the EULA and for non entertainment.” end of quote, but again, guess what, it does not mean anything, squat, nada, niet, rien, as it is clear that P3D does not care about it.

        You can get any license you want if you wink and nudge as Rob Randazzo from PMDG clearly stated it here, http://forum.avsim.net/topic/384876-pmdg-releases-statement-regarding-eulas-for-p3d/

        Quote” We have not seen a commitment by Lockheed Martin to support the “casual simmer” beyond providing methods for users to obtain a license for Prepar3d through “wink and nudge” means.” end of quote.

        Quote” This is a mess that we are hoping to see sorted out, but when we pointed this topic out, Lockheed Martin made it very clear that they were not interested in having a discussion with us regarding customer rights.” end of quote

        Please note that PMDG is not playing armchair lawyers THEY DO have a boat full of real and experienced/expensive lawyers for their field of business, they did not pull their statement out of their a$$.

        The bottom line is this, EVERYBODY can get a license, some will clearly and legally qualify under P3D’s EULA/requirements , others will be able to get one just because there is no enforcements mechanism to verify their eligibility to it, PERIOD.

        Now, if somebody want to say that I have a agenda, I am a naysayer, I am against P3D or else ….go for it, to each his own but that WILL NOT change the facts described above, and I don’t care who buy/use P3D.

        Stay safe flying Kosta.

        PS: If I was interested in buying P3D V2.0 I would wait for some reviews or feed back from simmers who got it on the released day, just saying……

      • Kosta says:

        alain,
        Damn, I’ll need a better part of the day to digest thing, lol.

        I saw your post on LM forums, and saw what they answered. As I said in my previous answer – EULA is between you an LM. I have no wishes discussing it as I have neither say nor knowledge about it.

        I will use the professional license when it comes out, that is sure. Whatever license discussion, if any, will be between me and LM, if they decide to pursue it. I would however suggest to those unsure to shell out $200 at release day, to invest into developer’s license, so you have a month to decide if you want to buy academic/professional. That is IMO the best way.
        Reviews are always biased and while they fit one person, they might not fit the other.

  17. John M. Helms says:

    To those who have problems with PMDG aircraft, have you tried
    installing with the FSX to P3D Migration Tool (“Tool”)?…I have no PMDG
    craft, but have successfully installed many aircraft (with “.exe” files looking
    for an FSX installation) into P3D with the Tool…link to Tool is:

    http://secure.simmarket.com/fsx-to-prepare3d-migration-tool.phtml

    • Kosta says:

      A good tool, I believe I also made a small review back when it came out. You can search on my blog.

      • John M. Helms says:

        Hi Kosta…re: the “Migration Tool,” ever used it on a PMDG
        aircraft?…idle curiosity….

      • Kosta says:

        Back at the beginning, before it was known that PMDG doesn’t want their products in P3D, yes, tried it. Since then, removed all PMDG products from P3D and using them only in FSX.

  18. Rob says:

    @Jeff: Some time ago someone else complained that MS’s online reg process was sometimes > quite often > never working, but when I tried it worked fine, so could be just a hickup at MS’s end.

    Yes, I’m another that will move to p3d when v2 is released.
    DX11 and improved multithreading have won me over!

    • Kosta says:

      I installed FSX recently too, a test installation in a fresh W7 install, and my FSX registered via online activation just fine, just like it always did.

  19. Keith says:

    I am in complete agreement with all of your statements. P3D (with 3 screens) has allowed me to continue to practice the work that my CFI has outlined for me while I work on obtaining my Sport Pilot’s license. The more realistic it gets the better. BTW – there’s a good reason Redbird Flight Simulators uses P3D for their devices. Some exceed $80,000 and they aren’t going to utilize crap.

    Kosta – Keep up the good work. I always appreciate your opinion and usually agree with you.

  20. Humm… it is interesting that you are criticizing and even calling names with respect to what other people are commenting? I understand the difference between positive and negative feedback, but either way, everybody is entitled to their opinion.
    Not long ago you quickly dismissed one of my questions here in your own forums about Windows 8 by just saying simply that you will probably NEVER use Windows 8 (which btw reminds me of my friends who were installing Windows Windows 98 on brand new Windows XP machines, mostly because they did not want to change, but I guess thats a different issue).
    I think your response was at least dismissive (even bordering rude), but hey, you have the right to express how you feel about it, even if it was not very helpful or relevant to my question.

    • Kosta says:

      Hi “mindfulrantsego”,

      You say I am calling names – I am? Where?

      I also understand the positive and negative feedback, however there are currently no feedback. Currently the only thing happening are negative guesses at best. Of course anyone can have their opinion, and I encourage it – however, as long as they are unfounded (except if you know someone who is on the beta team and who can 100% provide you with the correct information!), they remain guesses, and still negative ones.

      Besides, this is not a forum. It is a blog where I post my stuff for the simmers and where people can comment about it if they wish.

      As to Windows 8, you posted this on 19.Sept.2013, where W8 has been in full usage since a year, or a bit longer? So many posts about problems, I tried it also at one point, and I would call this dismissal very founded. It is founded on the experience from other users and my own. I dismissed W8 for those reasons, and for not being anything better for FSX than W7 is, and while running mostly stable on W7, W8 is also by lots of FSX addon authors unsupported (one example: PMDG).

      Going from Win98 to XP was a way bigger leap than going from W7 to W8. It looks differently, but the memory management and the concept of the OS didn’t change, they only pasted the new start menu on the whole screen and called it new OS (said in simple terms please, I did read all about many W8 changes!). Now, with 8.1 things might change a bit, but we’ll see what it does.

      Of course it was dismissive. But rude? Come on, think a bit… Should I make something nice when it’s not that? Should I tell you “You can use W8, but problems may arise?”. Would you have felt better? I’m not talking through flowers, I am telling you how it is.

      And lastly, it’s not how I *feel* about it, it’s how it is. I am very sorry if that didn’t answer your question, I do my best for most of simmers out there, but I know I can’t cover everyone’s feelings the same way.

      • To answer your question; this is what really got me about your post, when you wrote “WHAT A SORRY BUNCH OF WHINERS!!!”. IMHO your message would have come out cleaner just by excluding that bit.

        About the OS discussion: User Interface and other unfortunate Microsoft design decisions aside, Windows 8 is under the hood, at least arguably, better in a number of technical aspects than Windows 7. It is at the very least not worse (or more incompatible) with FSX than W7 is/was, as soon as you start the simulator the controversial start screen is gone and you have a very similar experience in both OSs… I’ve been using Win8 for flying (mostly Vatsim) since the Win 8 beta and it works just fine.

        While I understand perfectly that If you already have Windows 7 x64, there is little or no reason to run to the store to buy Win8 or 8.1, it is also true that If you are buying a new PC for FSX that happened to come with Windows 8, there are also very few reasons to force a downgrade to Windows 7.

        Like it or not, Windows 8.x is here and there is no going back, and you may not giving the best advise by dismissing it, specially if you have not used it extensively (or never, as you replied to in my original message).

      • Kosta says:

        Well, I didn’t call anyone names, if you want to be specific. I also didn’t want to. It was my impression of that and other similar threads. I just had to name one, and I am sorry if you got hit by this expression. I wasn’t targeting anyone special, just the whole discussion which I have been following through whole 10 pages.

        OS:
        In some technical aspects, W8 is better than W7, the is definitely true. However, how do those aspects benefit FSX? And how do you explain the various issues with crashes and joystick problems in W8, which don’t exist in W7? And how do you explain users massively reporting different errors with W8? It can’t just be a coincidence? So for the sake of stability for FSX, yes, I recommend a downgrade. Because it has been thoroughly tested and has been known to work well. And yet, you didn’t answer my previous question, what are you going to do if you run W8 + PMDG 777 and encounter a problem where you FSX is crashing when running T7 – so you will email PMDG and they will tell you they don’t support W8. What then?

        Yes, it’s here, but as long as there is no sim and addon officially supporting it (and FSX doesn’t), I will be (in the FSX world), against it. See many reasons above.

        A small correction – did not use it a long time. I have installed MANY computers with W8, albeit none with FSX, and my own tested W8 and FSX, and had some weird crashes and behaviour. I don’t remember details, it was many months ago…

      • dellycowboy says:

        Many of the Win 8 problems are SimConnect / FSUIPC related. FSUIPC has been patched and now I have no issues (apart from blasted VAS problems) flying at maxed out settings FSX England, VFR London, REX EGLL -> EGLC.

        I actually think W8 is more reliable, alt-tabing instantly, no crashes (apart from FSUIPC), the whole system just feels that bit more solid now plus I really am starting to love the W8 UI, yea didn’t think I’d ever say that but no going back now.

        Although my stability report is anecdotal so is every bug report that is ‘definitely’ W8 related!

        I can’t talk for joystick issues but USB drivers were changed in 8.1 which is pretty huge, screwed my Corsair Link software, so worth checking whether joystick works in 8.1 before getting W8. Personally, I have moved from Saitek to the XBOX 360 controller (I know sacrilege!) but it really is convinient for playing on the projector and with Opus I have all the camera movements I need. Whoever said you can’t fly a 737 with an XBOX controller is WRONG LOL!

  21. markfire says:

    Well you got to agree Win 8 is crap when it comes to Flight Sim integration. Its like going back to the bad old days, Vista! How many people carried on with XP until Win 7 popped its head up over the parapet. I think Kosta was referring to all the negative stuff and to those that make it, time and time again. When you’ve been around the forums for a while the same old faces crop up with their never ending dripping about new technology. you have to wonder in what capacity these individuals speak from and what harm it may cause to would be converties.

    I applaud free speech, but make it interesting and informed please!

    @Jeff Laurie

    FSX still activates fine here in the UK

    • Kosta says:

      Hi markfire,

      This:
      “I applaud free speech, but make it interesting and informed please!”

      I salute you buddy! Informed. That is the keyword.

  22. VC10 says:

    Interesting times ahead! I’ll probably end up buying P3D 2.0 the day it’s released. I’ll be most interested to see how things pan out. It will be especially interesting to see how the likes of PMDG and Flight One react should P3D 2.0 be adopted by users in a big way.I’ve got a feeling these guys are now more concerned with the professional training market than the home flight simulation enthusiast…

    I think at the moment X-Plane is failing to live up to the hype and I honestly can’t see it replacing FSX as most flight simmers platform of choice. FSX is really starting to show its age now and is creaking under the weight of so many advanced addons. I think perhaps P3D 2.0 represents the last best hope for the future of our hobby.

    On a related note…

    There’s a post by Tom Allensworth on Avsim in which he makes a rather venomous attack on Joshua Howard. I seem to remember Avsim locking threads and banning members for criticising Flight, and now TA is having a very public dig at Joshua Howard. It would appear the worm has turned quite dramatically at Avsim!

    As for all the negativity about P3D 2.0 – you’ll find it’s actually a small hardcore of users who always seem to spend their time telling others how they should enjoy their hobby and what is and isn’t acceptable. Having said that I do think that (once again) as a community we are starting to get carried away in the hype for a new product and are developing unrealistic expectations.

    I’m confident P3D 2.0 will be a definite improvement over FSX, but I’m also sure it won’t be the flight simming Holy Grail some are making it out to be. I’m also bracing myself for all the angst, outrage and drama when it’s finally released and people find a lot of their existing addons don’t work properly with it.

    • Kosta says:

      No, I am also quite sure that it won’t be the holy grail, but I hope it will be the next logical step. And I hope they keep as much compatibility as possible to the existing addons.

    • Diego says:

      P3D 2 seems to be at least an incremental upgrade over FSX (if nothing else the DX11 improvements look great). And I hope that before it comes out the isses blocking PMDG and other developers from supporting it are cleared.
      If it is succesful in broadening the flight sim market and reverse the damage done by MS Flight, all pieces may fall into place by themselves.

      • VC10 says:

        P3D 2.0 is the next step in the evolution of MSFS. It’s going to be an improvement for sure, and more importantly it gives us a way forward for the future of the hobby.

        However, I’ve been around this community long enough to make a few observations, and I’m pretty sure that within a day or two of the P3D 2.0 release there will be complaints about how it’s not as much of an improvement over FSX as people expected, how they’ve been mislead, cheated, conned, blah blah blah. We have a nasty habit in this community of filling in the blanks with our own unrealistic expectations and I can see that happening with P3D 2.0 right now. As I said though, P3D 2.0 represents the best way for us to move forward, and that’s what counts right now.

        As for backwards compatibility with existing stuff… It’s a double edged sword. Sure it’s nice to have all of our old stuff available for use in the new sim, but at the same time it limits the potential for new development. I think the important thing here again is to have realistic expectations of what stuff will remain compatible.

        When it comes to the EULA, well in my mind there was always two sides to that issue. One side was the argument over whether or not it was legal or appropriate for the individual to use P3D at home as part of their hobby. This always struck me as something of a non-issue and has been finally put to bed by Lockheed with the recent post on the P3D forums. The other side to the EULA argument is the more important one, and that is the licensing of entertainment products for use in a training platform. I’m thinking Flight One and PMDG. If we see a big migration of users from FSX to P3D 2.0 then one of two things will happen – either F1/PMDG will get on board, or they will leave the “entertainment” market altogether and focus on the professional training side of things. I think the latter is most likely.

      • Kosta says:

        “within a day or two of the P3D 2.0 release there will be complaints about how it’s not as much of an improvement over FSX as people expected, how they’ve been mislead, cheated, conned, blah blah blah.”

        Oh you are so right about that! I’m just waiting for those…

        “When it comes to the EULA,”

        Let me break this off before it goes further:
        When it comes to EULA, it’s solely an agreement between you and LM (END-USER License Agreement). It has nothing to do with anyone else. And what happens with PMDG/F1, it’s yet again nothing else but guessing.

      • magnetite2 says:

        Only thing that keeps me from going to P3D is my PMDG 777 doesn’t work with it. Load up a flight, and I get an error message more or less saying “You can’t run this with Prepar3D”. What alternatives to PMDG are there in terms of quality aircraft? I know they are the best, but who would be the second?

      • Kosta says:

        Unfortunately, there are no plausible alternatives to PMDG 777. It is a known problem and we can only hope, that in future, PMDG and LM find an alternative for us simmers.

        The thing is, LM allows P3D usage as simulation. And what do PMDG 777 users do, rather than *simulate* 777 with their product…

  23. Alain says:

    11/10/2013 at 04:43

    alain,
    Damn, I’ll need a better part of the day to digest thing, lol.

    I saw your post on LM forums, and saw what they answered. As I said in my previous answer – EULA is between you an LM. I have no wishes discussing it as I have neither say nor knowledge about it.

    I will use the professional license when it comes out, that is sure. Whatever license discussion, if any, will be between me and LM, if they decide to pursue it. I would however suggest to those unsure to shell out $200 at release day, to invest into developer’s license, so you have a month to decide if you want to buy academic/professional. That is IMO the best way.
    Reviews are always biased and while they fit one person, they might not fit the other.

    Kosta,

    You know better, you’r a smart man, they won’t pursue anything, they won’t have any licenses requirements discussion with you or anybody else, it’s not enforceable as they don’t have ANY and I mean ANY mechanism in place to enforce their license requirements, that is my point, that has nothing to do with the “between you and them” what so ever, I did (and very politely) ask them on their forums as to where they qualified me, we sure can call that “between them and me” right, I mean it can’t get better then that as to erase any misconceptions or interpretations of their requirements don’t you think, honest and straight to the point questions, I did not want to rely on ANYBODY’S EULA/ requirements interpretation, I wanted to hear it straight from the horse’s mouth, that was the PERFECT opportunity for them to clarify everything….my post was DELETED…

    Lets just be honest here and lets cut the BS, the “between you and them” or “I don’t want to talk about it” excuses is just to keep (who ever buy a license and does not legally qualify) their heads in the sand, as I said you are a smart man so why don’t we call a spade a spade for what it is, I know you as a straight shooter regardless of what the is subject or the company involve,….why do I see a little curve in your shooting here…LOL

    All in good fun Kosta.

    • geoskylos says:

      The only bad thing in my opinion as i said, is that we will never see PMDG quality because every good developer will be “afraid” of the “sudden death”…and THATS the point of the EULA discussion….LM can behave much more worse than MS did ith ACE, and make it a closed product in one minute…

    • Kosta says:

      Alain,
      Since you always like to have the last word, I hereby grant you that and will not discuss this any further. Any further posts on your side (or for that matter, anyone’s) on this topic will be deleted, merely due this being blog about something completely different. Thanks for understanding!

      • Alain says:

        Sorry but my follow up questions were deleted, the first post still there.

        No problems kosta, it’s not about having the last word.

  24. Alex says:

    @Alain Needle: Your post is NOT deleted, some crybaby called the Mod´s and said you were a troll! You ARE a troll, or what? Why keep banging this stupido EULA thing all the way over to Nick at Simforums, and back to Avsim, and all the way over to LM? They don´t want this shit, they don´t care, why do you care so much? OCD? Is that your problem, the Mr. 100% right guy who never touches people, and have 100 kilo of soapbars stowed away to clean his hands?

    • Alain says:

      The first answer above was for you Alex, I don’t know how I got thing mixed up, don’t remember discussing anything related to that at simforum, you are right and that’s exactly the point I made “THEY DON’T CARE”.

      • Kannwar says:

        Alain, you are a troll and a naysayer who would prefer endless debates over stupid legalities to the progression of the hobby. I’m glad to see you have been put in your place here.

      • Kosta says:

        Alright guys, not taking any sides, but I think Alain got the point.

  25. Alex says:

    Alain, it´s another Alex you refer too! It´s not me, yes, I´m me, but not that Alex you think…
    Complicated, huh?
    So I got the final word, hehe!
    Alain: You ARE nitpicking all over the forums about your endless LM EULA thing, it´s tiresome, get on, please? Yes, I know you have an awesome DX10 setup, yes, it´s maybe better than FSX DX9, and P3D, but it´s tiresome the endless parade and “last word” discussions!

    Ce la Vie buddy…

    • dellycowboy says:

      Alex, Kosta, I totally agree! Sorry Kosta but I have to have a last last word here to represent the 99% of simmers!

      I am sick and tired of this debate.. ALAIN sorry to say but most people just think you’re a sanctimonious pompous old codger, the majority of us simmers understand that the ‘legalsphere’ is not the real world, sure Boeing/LM/PMDG its all a big corporate stand off but to then have you and your troops constantly banging on about how ‘no one cares that you are flying your little home sim ILLEGALLY’ JESUS really?!!

      Alain this crusade would be hilarious if I didn’t have to see it on every bloody forum! Please respect the 99% who tell you to ZIP IT we don’t care about you or your EULA… oh the EULA look at the EULA everyone… mwahh mwahh,. stop crying, you are a grown man for gordsake!

      What’s worse is you might scare off LM and they really might make it illegal for the rest of us to play a future compatible sim, is that what you really want? So I beg you if you can let your ego go for just a second shut it for all our sakes. PLEASE.

      And look your real concern, PMDG will see in time where the market is and find a way to hit that market, EULA or not, all we care about is that the future lies on a sim that “developers” have the source code for and we the simmers can get hold of it, whether that be LM, XP or whoever.

      I too have a DX10 fully tricked system too and it looks awesome but it could be so much more, try playing BF4 or even GTA on a damn XBOX, the graphics are light years ahead oh and do you want an end to Out of memory errors… YES WE DO! Then sorry but FSX is a massively dead duck long term, we all know that, you know that so please stop drawing attention to yourself like some sad old hasbeen showing off on the internet, it really is embarrassing at this stage

  26. Would you be able to do a “guest piece” on my web site : http://www.iStarted.com ?
    I am beginning a page where people can go to learn how to try new things. I am an FSX user, but never tried P3d (but I want to). If you could email a short post on your thoughts, I will upload it as as a guest author and do all the linkbacks to this site.

    Thanks…

  27. alain says:

    I just came back here after a couple of weeks out just to see what was going on…..look like some peoples here a pretty upset at me for calling a spade a spade….if you want to show me where I was wrong or where I was lying about anything I will not mind be corrected, and I mean it, I don’t mind a strong discussion but to me personal attack is the last resort one can have has they are running out of argumernts to prove their point, I will not go that route but hey!, like somebody already said…. c’est la vie.

    Now I would not mind getting a short to the point answer to some questions I have, lets start with this first, a rumor has been spread around forums to the fact that P3D is for everybody, apparently a question was asked by a P3D’s forum member and was answered by a software manager on the P3D’s forum to the fact that indeed PREPAR3D was/is for everybody, I went on P3D’s forum and funnily enough I saw this……. http://www.prepar3d.com/forum-5/?mingleforumaction=viewtopic&t=3372.10

    read post 11, 12, and 13 from the top down…..

    MODERATOR EDITED AND WARNING:
    ANY REFERENCE TO ANYONE USING PREPAR3D OUTSIDE THE ACCEPTABLE EULA WILL NOT BE TOLERATED.

    So my question is this, if indeed P3D IS for everybody, what’s with the warning, how can anyone be using PREPAR3D in a unacceptable way in reference to the EULA?

    So, if I take a step back and read (as many time as I want) what this PREPAR3D moderator edited in the link above …it is crystal clear that PREPAR3D is NOT for everybody.

    PS: Please, don’t kill the messenger, as you all can see, the warning you read in the link above is from a PREPAR3D’s moderator.

    • Kosta says:

      Alain,
      The point people are “killing the messenger” is because you are just that.
      The point are not the answers by LM, but rather the questions and discussions posed.
      Give me the date of the last time you read the EULA for windows, acrobat reader or winamp? I am sure each has one and I am sure nobody ever questioned EULA with such fire and dedication like the one for P3D is being questioned.
      What they wrote above, in caps, is a clear to show that they are finally (and understand finally as “we brought it that far”!!) annoyed by this topic and the cup is full. Do you want it to go over? Do YOU or anyone else bashing you for your senseless discussions want LM to stop development of P3D? If you continue OR ANYONE ELSE this discussion further, then the clear answer is yes.

      Point being:
      Use it and enjoy it. Don’t want to use it? Don’t.

  28. Alex says:

    Alain, shut up, will you, please?????

  29. magnetite2 says:

    With regards to P3D’s performance, aside from rendering, the first core (that it mainly runs on now), is responsible for physics as well (aircraft, or otherwise). Now other software takes advantage of Nvidia’s PhysX engine to offload physics calculations to the GPU. Not sure if P3D 2.0 is doing this, because even some software which says physics are done on the GPU are still done on the CPU.

    • Kosta says:

      Physics as in aircraft physics or otherwise in FSX, have *nothing* to do with Nvidia’s PhysX engine.

      • João Alfredo says:

        Kosta, maybe I’m talking a big silly, but what I understand is that the first core, the CPU now works, and very in P3D?
        In this case, it would be interesting to use affinity mask and reserve it for the system?
        If I’m talking a lot of nonsense, a discount, everything I read or write is translated by Google.

        João Alfredo

      • Kosta says:

        Joao,
        Sorry, I barely understand what you want to ask me.
        The CPU is pretty much used the same way as it is in FSX, however there are many things that have been moved to the GPU. I’ll soon be releasing some tests to show that off…

  30. Rob says:

    Latest news on LM’s website
    “Prepar3D v2 will be available for purchase and digital download via the Prepar3D.com store on Monday Nov 25th”

    Now I’m wiping the drool away!! 🙂

  31. Pingback: Anonymous

  32. Javier says:

    Kosta, what about stutters… FSX has a droping FPS allway form 20 to 50… Has they solve the proble? Will it has smoothness??

    • Kosta says:

      Javier,
      Well, it has smoothness, but currently, due to absence of real full screen, the FSX smoothness is not achievable (from my guide, the smoothness one achieves by using real full screen and 1/2 refresh in NI). I didn’t notice any uncontrollable FPS drops though.

      • Javier says:

        Thanks so much.

        Now I´m flying with V2 and I´ve seen that p3d V2 is tweak free… Is there any kind of tweak like affinity mask? Because I saw a avsim interview that sasys that it can be done but…

        May be with your help we achive awsome P3D v2!!! Thanks again sr.

      • Kosta says:

        No, Javier, P3Dv2 is really tweak free as it is. You can apply AM, but it doesn’t do very much.
        One simply needs a beefy GPU to run the extra features, otherwise P3Dv2 is pretty CPU limited when it comes to pure terrain loading.

  33. boez says:

    Kosta, I’m really pleased to come across your post as it explains why I cannot get v2 to be as smooth as FSX with the 30fps & 1/2 refresh rate settings. This is disappointing as that level of smoothness is hard to beat, however, other features in V2 make up for it. Can you elaborate anymore on ‘real full screen’?

    • Kosta says:

      The other features, for me personally, don’t make it up. The realism for me is if I can maintain at least 30fps without a single stutter. I rather lower the resolution or detail to have that. The best kind of flying is at 60fps on a 60Hz screen. And only if you can maintain these 60fps. In that case the landing for instance becomes a real joy, as with EZCA for instance, the cockpit is moving very smoothly, and you get a very good sense of flying. 30fps + 1/2 refresh is the next best solution.

      Real full screen? Well, don’t know the technicalities of it, but notice when you switch with alt+enter in FSX, the screen flickers for a moment, then the sim switches.

      In P3D, full screen is only a windowed mode, spanned over the whole screen. And it stays windowed, there is no performance difference between the two, both act and react the same. Some report better performance with full screen, it can’t be really. I’d really like to believe, but from what I have seen, it ain’t. And it is because of this feature that you can’t use 1/2 refresh, as it is only for the “real full screen”.

      • boez says:

        I did a bit more reading about full screen modes and can perhaps offer some more technical input.

        When you Alt-Enter (or select Full Screen) in FSX, the software selects a DirectX mode called ‘Exclusive Full Screen Mode’. In this mode FSX effectively talks directly to the graphics card and completely bypasses the windowing system of the OS. This means no interruptions from status bars, pop-ups and so on. In Windowed mode (the normal mode for apps such as Office, IE, Opera, etc.) the application competes with all other running apps for screen time. Actually Alt-Enter switches FSX back and forth between these two modes.

        In Perpar3d, LM have eliminated this exclusive mode and when you switch to full screen, just as you describe, what you are actually doing is maximizing the window and hiding all the frames, title bar, etc. This *looks* like Exclusive fullscreen but is still in Windowed mode and all drawing is still handled via the OS (actually the Desktop Windows Manager) before being passed onto the graphics card. There as some advantages as LM list but the big, big disadvantage is the loss of the ability to talk directly to the card.

        The acid test is to use Windows-Tab to switch between windows, Exclusive mode shows FSX as just a black window while Prepar3d is still showing its last drawn contents.

        Finally, as an analogy think about exclusive mode as having the freeway all to yourself, i.e. you’re the only car on the road and never get slowed down by traffic. In Windowed mode you share with other cars, can get slowed down and need to be polite 🙂

      • dellycowboy says:

        What are the advantages of this method that LM list?

      • boez says:

        I don’t think there is any except for native (and better) multimonitor support but here is what LM say (from their forum). Maybe not a ‘magic bullet’ but certainly smoother frame rate in exclusive mode and it would have been nice to have had the choice.

        ————————————————————————-
        The decision to remove the exclusive full screen mode was not made lightly. Unfortunately, the API is designed primarily for single window applications running on one monitor, or a group of monitors using something along the lines of Eyefinity or NVSurround. There were a lot of bugs and limitations with using the exclusive full-screen mode that no-longer exist. For instance, add on developers now have the opportunity to display their own UI or controls while the application is in full screen mode. You can also run the application in full-screen without blacking out your secondary monitor, so you can use other applications simultaneously. We will certainly work to resolve the issues present in our current implementation, but bringing back exclusive full screen would not be anywhere near the magic bullet you might think it would be. Thanks for the feedback!

        Zach Heylmun
        —————————————————————————

      • Kosta says:

        Thanks for this, exactly what was needed 😉

      • Kosta says:

        Well, first of all, no black screen on the 2nd screen while running “full screen”, and the ability to have P3D spanned over more screens without having to rely to 3rd party solutions, like surround view or eyefinity.
        The performance however, suffers. Maybe when they start working closely with Nvidia, stuff will change, but as of right now, it’s not really great IMO.

      • Kosta says:

        boez,
        Thank you very much, I appreciate the time you took to research and write this. Now it’s more clear what’s happening.
        I see the positive sides of having this system, but not having exclusive is still a bad idea for P3D.

  34. mat says:

    There is a very well know forum, and I can not get around thinking that while many a thousand intelligent folks do tend read there, that when it comes to p3d some few dozen of seemingly utterly stupid people step out and engage in a discussion about p3d v2 not being good for one or another reason. This is just sooo discouraging and untrue.
    I bought P3D v2 only 2 days ago, and this sim is a totally new world of simulation. The devs at LM have literally begun and reworked every aspect of the code while keeping it the same sim.
    Autogen is not popping up any longer, we got real clouds you can actuall fly through, and not some ugly 2D textures (honestly, thats all fsx clouds were, rex did not change that), Ground scenery and vegetation are casting shadows, which simply look amazing. Its unbelieveble how much immersion this ads to the sim when flying VFR over some suburban area. Then you get the sun casting shadows in the virtual cockpit, that is breathtaking. Texture resolution size has been increased and can be choosen from inside the sim. LOD detail radius can be upped to (supposedly) 6.5, again right there in the menus of the sim, no digging in the cfg neccessary. And on top of that, this sim is super smooth…
    Of course this is still a simulation and unlike FSX it is not only eating CPU, but now also GPU and to a great extent, and I’m glad it does, finally! I’m on a i7-4770K@4.6Ghz with a 4GBGTX770, I can not max out all settings as well, and I did not expect to. Turning on the volumetric fog and having shadows casted and received by every pixel of the screen brings my GPU to its knees, but that is nothing to complain about. LM has been so generous to have the shadowing fully customizable. We can choose in detail what to cast and receive shaows in the game, as well as decide on the distance shadows are drawn. Then there is tesselation, and while I’m not sure to what extent it is working in its current state in p3d, Just imagine what landscape and water will look like with the next generations of GPUs if tesselation is further developed in the next alterations of p3d…
    Ok, sorry for my lenghty writing, but I just had to put this thoughts down in writing.
    These Whiners over at you know where really are over my head…

    • Kosta says:

      Well mat,
      I agree with you.
      I just did a 1:1 test of FSX and P3D in a LOADED scenario.
      The scenario includes Flightbeam KPHX and Aerosoft Airbus in a VC.
      Now, the untweaked FSX provides in this scenario 40fps (no AA, trilinear, no-AF) when the mouse is off the screen, and 32fps when the mouse is active over FSX.
      If I activate FSX AA and AF, I get 47fps (yes, been careful about 4096 textures). Which is really weird because AA should actually lower the performance…
      P3Dv2 provides me with a stable 40fps no matter where the mouse is. 4096 active too. There is no impact on FPS if FXAA, AA and AF are on.
      Finally, if I run the FSX tweaked according to my guide, I get 56fps with full autogen.
      So, according to this small test, P3Dv2 performs actually same as FSX on my system with the GTX580. I am being careful however not to overload the GPU, as this is vital for testing of this kind!
      And to conclude the test, I measured the usage of VAS and GPU usage, and saw two big problems:
      – VAS usage in P3Dv2 is VASTLY higher than FSX (we are talking 300mb more, which is in a pool of 4000MB quite a lot)
      – GPU usage is very low when running P3D, it is actually lower than in the FSX
      Now, I am aware that both these products were made for FSX, however running them both in P3D, still gives the FSX an advantage, at lease performance-wise. So what LM team did they made terrain perform better, they made autogen perform better, but that ALL is still not really important when you load some addons into P3Dv2, when you see what other parts of the sim are actually doing. Putting everything into perspective changes the thing quite much.
      In the end, when I tweak the FSX so that it works fine, I have better performance in FSX than I have in P3Dv2 (with heavy addons) AND LESS VAS usage.
      I thank you for your thoughts, they actually pushed me to do another comparison, and unfortunately the results were still not as good as I hoped they would be.

      I will however, at the end, say one thing: out of the box, I like P3Dv2 much better than I like out of the box FSX, of course. But we want addons, don’t we? So with the addons, FSX still has some advantage in performance, we are talking 20%, but this might all turn if I had a more powerful GPU. However, I don’t believe that! If you observe the GPU usage being even lower in P3D in this scenario than it is in FSX, I cannot imagine WHY would a stronger GPU give better frames. The scenario is highly CPU dependent.
      Of course we have to be fair, and say that P3Dv2 shows way more autogen than FSX does, so are these 20% justifiable? To each his own.

      Anyway, those are my thoughts.

      • mat says:

        Hi Costa,
        thanks for your reply.
        I can not make the same comparissons as I do not have these Addons, but I’m sure, that your results are correct. Allow me to jump forward to your last sentence, as this is very interesting
        I have noticed, that with p3d, only one core is fully utilized while two other cores are showing a workload of about 20-30% only and one core is even idling. Such I have recorded while making several flights over the seattle area, and using the good old job scheduler did not change utilization for me. This tells me that p3d at present, for whatever reason, does merely use the CPU at all. Only while loading a flight, I could see CPU utilization rising considerably. If the addons you are using, put more workload on the CPU your results would make perfect sense.
        Regarding GPU utilization, I can report that on my system, the GPU load could be set to almost any numbers depending on what graphics options have been activated. I have fiddled around with the shadowing options to get around 80-90%. On FSX GPU load is around 6-8% for me.
        I also observed, that while I was loading up several Airports to make some flights and see how p3d feels, I noticed that the nvidia inspector monitor recorded an ever increasing GPU memory usage, starting out at around 1.5GB and then ever increasing to like 3.7Gb (roughly, did not note it down).
        It did not slow the sim down, though. Maybe that is intentional, to avoid having to reload content, and just using all thats there..
        So if it were only for the addons that are not running good, I would say, you know old code, new sim, blabla…. But the low CPU utilization seems to be related, maybe even be primarily responsible, and would explain, why p3dv2 out of the box is running great, but turns south when additional scenery is installed, like you do observe. I will follow this closely, also via your blog, as I plan to buy FTX Global if they begin to release their vector landclass.
        For the time being I’ll enjoy climbing and descending through thick layers of cloud.

        best
        mat

      • Kosta says:

        Mat,
        Indeed, it would be interesting to know if these FPS-drops are due to some old code, and/or if sceneries can be coded for P3Dv2 better, to load into VRAM and run off the GPU. Then we would most likely have really a winner. I am still awaiting for someone to send me comparisons for autogen testing, as these will show IF better GPU means better autogen performance.

        What GPU do you have?

  35. JD says:

    As we all know there are many ways to approach installing (and using) a flight simulator. some like detailed scenery some like realistic airplanes, some want both.
    I like realistic flight dynamics and reasonably cool scenery which allows me to fly VFR following roads and rivers.
    To that end i would like to happily report I am getting pretty good results with P3D V2 using ORBX world and Global vector, as well as REX 4.

    Now the hardware gurus and performance junkies may disagree, (and frankly I will soon upgrade my GPU), but using my current set up shows that you do not need a super system to get good results both in aircraft realism and scenery “eye candy”.
    I am running an Intel i5, 3.2 GHz with 8 g of corsair memory, and an Nvidia GTX 440 1 gig GPU. nothing is OC,d, this all on windows 7 64bit, with dual LCD monitors. YES twin monitors. It took several days of fooling around tweaking and re-tweaking, but it is much better than 1.4. There are a lot of seemingly strange protocols in how you order your performance and scenery adjustments but this doable.

    My graphics are on the mid to high settings air and ground traffic enabled. scenery is also mid to high end, with high mesh settings. In my experience higher settings sometimes allow the GPU “breathing space” and performance is better than on presumed better lower settings.don’t be afraid to try anything!
    I am getting 26 to 30 FPS in most areas. FPS does suffer some in custom scenery areas and heavily congested areas.

    P3D is the next level of sim, yes there are some bugs, ORBX tree texture issues etc. to iron out, but this is clearly the wave of the future. 32 bit vs 64 bit aside, this sim performs.

  36. 2.1 is out, what guys you think about:)?

    • Kosta says:

      You can read my thoughts on their forum. For now, I’ll only tell you it’s unflyable, as I took off with the F22 from a mountainous airport, flew around, close to the ground for about 10 minutes, and the sim OOMed. Just like that. No addons, no shadows, no water, only high ground settings, but set to 1024, and autogen+scenery one notch below max., and I received an OOM just after some flighttime, just flying on afterburner, up down, left right, like in a dogfight 😉

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