DTG – new sim based on Microsoft Flight Simulator?

It is old news that DTG are developing a new simulator. The point that has (maybe) been unclear, was what kind of simulator DTG are developing. They have been gathering information and are planing for release in 2016.

I found following information on the Steam Forum:

We do indeed have a global licensing deal with Microsoft, granting us the rights to develop and publish all-new flight products based on Microsoft’s genre-defining flight technology.

You can find out more here – http://www.dovetailgames.com/news/2014/jul/9/dovetail-games-licensing-deal-with-microsoft-takes-flight

– Martin


From these two facts, release in 2016 and based on Microsoft’s flight technology, I can go into speculating as to say:

– DTG is developing a successor to the Flight Simulator, maybe even that much compatible with FSX, that it won’t be much of a problem for developers to adapt to it

– they are definitely not writing it from the base up, but most likely doing the job similar to LM – with a different approach

It is all just a speculation, I just found the above statement a very interesting one.

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32 Responses to DTG – new sim based on Microsoft Flight Simulator?

  1. Malcolm Grant says:

    Now wouldn’t that be wonderful a new FSX that would seamlessly use all our existing addon, fix all the bugs in FSX and make use of modern hardware and operating systems. Too much to hope for I fear.


    • Kosta says:

      Indeed too much to hope, that unfortunately won’t happen. What could happen is a new sim that has a similar concept, same rules for aircraft development, so that developers can adapt fairly quickly. For a comparison: an adaptation from FSX->P3D is a quick one, from FSX->X-Plane, nearly impossible.

  2. Pulsefsx says:

    My hope they can search in Outerra Engine super realistic clouds, water, land,trees etc.

  3. Lee says:

    Sadly I won’t be surprised if this is just going to be the idea of MS Flight rehashed with expensive DLC options to expand things. Dovetail Games don’t have a good reputation and I’m surprised no one has mentioned it. Have a look at user reviews/forums of their current main product – Train Simulator 2015 on Steam. Main complaints generally seem to trend around overpriced, sub-par quality DLC that never gets fixed and just general brokenness and oversimplification (read: not really a simulator) of train dynamics. While I can’t verify the accuracy (or lack thereof) of their train simulation engine, I can attest that the software is unstable…and probably always will be.

    Would be great to be proven wrong on this but only time will tell.

    • Kosta says:

      On the other side, they have done a pretty good job with FSX, and they want to bring a new sim based on flight simulator engine. If they are even half clever, they won’t go the path of train sim.

      • Lee says:

        That’s true and I have read good things about their adaptation of FSX. I’d like to think they can bring something really good to FS as it can only mean good things for the hobby as a whole. I’m just wary when a publisher has a dodgy QA record. Time will hopefully prove the positive outcome in this case.

  4. Malcolm Grant says:

    Assuming the functionality and quality are there my concern would be the cost of a new sim plus, weather, EFB, 737, Dash 8, ground services, scenery and airports, it’s quite an investment.

  5. Phil Mosley says:

    Cant someone just start from scratch instead of using old technology/code..
    I was kind of excited about this until the FSX word popped up..

    • Alain says:

      There you go, at least you understand what it would take.

      Unless there is a complete code rewriting of FSX (and that will not happen from LM nor from Dovetail) on a 64-bit platform the only thing one can do is dream about it, both have to happen not just a 64-bit platform or just a rewrite of the code but both together…AND THAT IS WHAT IT WOULD TAKE AND NOTHING LESS….

      Will somebody start from scratch…maybe…if they have $9,000,000.00 usd + as a starting point and make sure that they will recoup their investment and make money from it.

      Sorry if I’m busting somebody’s bubble again but it is what it is.


      • Kosta says:

        Yes, me and most others who have been around enough, do know what’s it about and what’s at stake. I have some faith in DTG, so I can only hope something good will come out of it. If not, oh well, I can only hope guys at LM will continue the true simulator path.

  6. alain says:

    Kosta old friend,

    DTG is in the same boat, unless they are welling to scratch the old and buggy FSX code and start fresh on a 64-bit platform (and that’s what we call a new sim) there is nothing they can do with FSX but polishing the edge of it here and there without making it very noticeable.

    The thing is this, FSX code is not without big problems and I mean BIG problems and to be able to make it good like today’s game there is no way one can do it without starting fresh = bye bye all add on you already have and more, LM was talking about a 64-bit P3D in the pipeline at some point…ok, so what? The only thing that will happen with that is 3PD stuffing more eye candies in there scenery to take advantage of the change and the ugly beast’s head will appear again (code in FSX).

    At one point one need to take a step back and look at the big picture and realize that there is no magic solution.

    Here is what I’ve learned so far….. nobody can’t stop a loving heart.


    • Kosta says:

      Alain, yes and no: FSX has a very good and matured world display system, it is only the question on which graphics engine is it based. The matured aircraft and management system is also very good. Support for addons, ability to modify, those are the key elements. Scrap the old code, apply outterra or similar engine into it, make it 64bit, but DO NOT change how FSX in general operates. People already know the system, which has been unchanged for probably 20 years. The system is good, you just have to put in a decent engine.

      The final question is: IS IT POSSIBLE to build a simulator on the new engine and more importantly, would it actually perform better?? Can you move the flight mathematics, system calculations for the cockpits to the GPU? Don’t think so.

      We all dwell on the point where it’s said WE NEED FULL REWRITE, but noone actually asks themselves if it would, in the end, perform any better.

  7. Luiz Silveira says:

    Given Dovetail’s record I wouldn’t be surprised if the “new sim” will not be mod-able at all. I hope I’m totally mistaken.

  8. Peter Suranyi says:

    Sadly I have a feeling that they just gonna screw it up… Anyway, P3D seems to be the answer, it looks like finally (it took them soo long) they’re able to optimize memory management to a point where it’s actually works as it should have been when FSX came out in 2006 (immediate unloading of stuff from memory as soon as it’s unused).
    Unless Dovetail keeps full compatibility with FSX, it will never take proper hold. Look at Aerofly FS, Flightgear, and even X-Plane. They are not bad products in their own right, but in terms of popularity FSX (and derivatives) takes the pride. I mean who is gonna give an NGX or an A2A C172, or ORBX scenery?

    Anyway, Costa, what do you think about P3D V3? It’s very promising, and has some nice features. But, in my opinion, they should at least give some discount (like 20%) of those who already own it. If you look at the release notes, most of the stuff is bugfixing. Yes, there are new features, too, which validates a new product launch, but when I read stuff like “Fixed bug where non-unicode languages would alter starting location”. Jeez, at least they should give a final patch to P3D V2, with these bugfixes, instead of expecting people to spend another 200 bucks for these things.

    • Kosta says:

      I haven’t bought it yet – I will wait until crucial addons for me become compatible and will then get the dev version to test it. Or $200 with a possible refunds.
      I am quite pissed off they want me to pay $200 for 80% bugfixes (which partially didn’t even exist in FSX) and couple of new (of which some are not really useful) features.
      Since there is no decent LOD and decent AA, I do not see it replacing my FSX (which due to lower initial VAS usage almost never OOMs anyway), and is probably the final reason why I will not shell out $200 and keep it.

  9. AirWorld says:

    Visit: air-world.blog.cz

  10. Paul R says:

    There is another possibility for a new flight sim and its moving forward quickly:
    To see the basic detail level try this benchmark:

    • Kosta says:

      Hmm, very interesting graphics. It will very hard to place a sim which is incompatible with all the addons out there. Look at p3d which is currently in almost every aspect better than FSX, and still having in comparison to FSX a very small user base. Having a killer engine and performance which possibly scales well with SLI and is very GPU dependent like unigine2 is, it might have a really good chance, but just look at xplane…

      • Paul R says:

        The new sim is first going to attempt to be so much better than FSX/P3D, XP10, and anything else we have available today. The goal is to make version 1 (default with no add-ons) so good that, flight simmers, PMDG, Orbx, Hi Fi, A2A and the rest will be awed. The 3rd parties will be welcomed and helped by NGiS to develop new products for a new and much superior platform. But there is also much talk about the strong possibility of current add-ons being able to be used with the new sim. NGiS really want to make the whole community happy and keep a high standard of quality. It would do everyone well if all simmers and 3rd parties kept a close watch on the forums of this project, its moving forward and many new announcements and happen often…it does not look like this one will fade away like so many others have.

      • Kosta says:

        Hi Paul,

        I agree, the main thing is to make it so good, both performing and looks, so that it shines WAY above FSX/P3D – ain’t that hard with current available tools and engines. But the biggest problem is achieving the level of features both FSX and P3D offer. Starting with moddability of aircraft and the whole eco-system, over the whole aicraft system, weather etc. The high standard you talk about is exactly that. Simmers expect lot. They have to deliver lot and then some more.

        I am keeping an open eye on the project, also registered on the forum.

  11. Bill Gammel says:

    Does anyone like X-Plane? I have purchased both X-plane and FSX gold with accelerator pack and loads of Saitek devices that I am having issues with installing on FSX and running steady on X-plane. Literally at my wits end with X-Plane and Randy the sole tech support guy. Decided to switch to FSX and am having problems with the program recognizing the Saitek devices. Ugh

    Help me O B Kosta, your my only hope! Lol!

    Bill Gammel

    • Peter Suranyi says:

      Have you tried this? Third party drivers for Saitek and FSX:

      As for X-Plane or FSX, I rather stay with a 9 year old software, here’s why: I think Laminar Research has really blown their chances with XP10. They kept everything which was wrong in XP9, and the only new stuff they bought in is not that good.

      Just a few examples: The game comes on 9 double layer DVD-s for the stupid reason because it has an ultra-detailed world-wide mesh. Seriously, who needs that by default? FSX comes on two normal size dvd-s and has way more actual content PLUS good enough world-wide mesh. Who’s doing it wrong then?
      Also, total lack of assets in XP: 3/4 of the default aircraft doesn’t even have a virtual cockpit to start with (okay, you can buy third party a/c, but still). Ridiculus ATC and air traffic: every a/c around you uses the same advanced flight model (but why??) as you, and that limits air traffic to a laughably small number. Also, there are no extra models (not even repaints, come on!), so you keep seeing United 747-s and BA 777-s everywhere, ridiculus.
      Plausable world: the big promise of XP10 was the plausible world concept where you don’t have satellite photos anymore, everything is actually built there, like in Sim City for example. There are two problems with this: it actually looks like flying over Sim City, even at full density (so, the old technology of satellite photos+3d buildings actually looks way more plausible), plus, because of the lack of assets, there are US stlyes buildings and vehicles everywhere. Those US diesel trains and houses can be really out of place if you are flying over Europe, but they can’t even represent the continental US properly.

      Another reason: no airport buildings apart from 2-3 selected airport, also, zero local buildings in cities. Seriously? I didn’t expected a fully modelled airport everywhere, but at least a generic control tower and some hangars would have been nice, FS9 was able to do that in 2003! And also, the game is racking up over 60GB, but you don’t even have the Golden Gate Bridge or the Statue of Liberty in it? LMHO…
      Next reason: ugly 3D clouds. They might be 3D, but they look a hell lot worse than the 2D clouds in FSX.

      There are some good points too, however: a way better engine than FSX, great flight model, global illumination. And that is it. I rather play vanilla FSX, even at the level of 2006, it has so much more to offer. Laminar went in such a wrong direction, they didn’t even program a proper menu system, half of the players are scared off by the fact that you boot straight into the game. I mean programming an FSX style menu system is not rocket science, nor it’s expensive. So, that was my rant about XP: I really wanted to see a competitor to FSX, but Laminar blew it big time, and I’m really disappointed about it!

    • Kosta says:

      Bill, the only piece of advice I can give you is to forget FSX internal management, which is terrible. Pay for fsuipc and you’ll never have problems again… At least I don’t. For me, the best investment into FS, like ever.

  12. Nick says:

    Hi Kosta,
    forgive me highjacking this so interesting thread concerning the new DTG flightsim but I need a way to get in touch with you about FSX and I didn’t find any other way except from in here.I even tried couple of times to register in Avsim forum but for unknown reasons me application was rejected.Maybe something went wrong with the mail address I entered in the registration page,I don’t know…
    Here is where I definitely need your help, your expertise and knowledge:
    I recently acquired a quite reasonabled priced boxed version of FSX Gold Edition.Even though I’m relatively knew in FSX,I’m not new at all at flight simming.I’m into this from long time ago since early 90’s.Later I put aside flight siming as I decided to earn my wings becaming a real life pilot.Couple of years ago I setup a powerful rig and made a come back in flight sims although not civil but rather a battle one,IL-2 Sturmovik Cliffs of Dover.But I fed up with battles and decided to start flying what I realy love more than anything- FSX – besides flying the real thing.First I’ll give you my rig’s technical characteristics as I know it’s very crucial for you to know my PC capabilities.
    CPU: Intel I7 4770K Overclocked @4,5GhZ HyperThreading engaged, GPU: Sapphire Radeon R9 280X 3 GB TOXIC Edition, RAM: 2x4GB @2400MhZ, Motherboard: Gigabyte Z87X OC, 2x120GB SSD in RAID for everything except FSX and 1×256 GB SSD (Samsung 850PRO) exclusively for FSX and adons.For cooling: CPU: Thrustmaster Silver Arrow IB-E Extreme (the best of the best CPU cooller available!!!) and for the whole PC case all 8 fan option.OS: Windows 7-Ultimate.
    For FSX I yet owned and installed only Aerosoft’s Thessaloniki X and REX for weather and some other textures.So far for my PC configuration.I already tried to tweek my fsx.cfg file as per your instructions.Everything worked fine except AFFINITYMASK= which when I try to enter it in my .cfg I notice a behaviour on my CPU which a don’t like so much (high CPU activity up to 55-60% running FSX and 60-65 temps at peaks,rest of the time in FSX @ approx. 25-30% activity and 45-50 temps).When there isn’t an AFFINITYMASK= inside .cfg things are considerably better,so I decided to leave this out and let FSX run @ all 8 cores (4+4 due to HP).The FPS I’m getting flying around Thessaloniki-X a stock plane with the addition of heavy REX weather and clouds (2048 et the FPS limiter inside FSX @30FPS.It doesn’t flactuates at any case more than 0.1 – 0.2 FPS,only my cpu works a little harder reaching but in any case not more than 55 degs temps and total 60% CPU utilization and this only for a second or two and then everything returns to cool and normal.What concerns me the most is some strange polygons I see for a couple of seconds on ground and water textures having the Microsoft logo on them instead of real textures.Besides this I’m also getting some strange black squared shaped artifacts when I look from inside cockpit at the general area blinking for a fraction of a second here and there only to dissapear after a while.
    This is the only things bothers me (for the moment) and also my ignorance to get the best of my FSX maybe tweeking more effectively fsx.cfg according my specific rig configuration.
    Could you please help me out with this?I’m afraid I already started to getting lost with so much information all around the net and forums!
    And BTW,Kostas is a Greek name,are you also Greek?
    Many thanks in advance and please excuse my lengthy entry in your blog!

  13. Kosta says:

    Hello Nick,
    From your post I’d say there is something wrong with your textures. First of all, kill the OC and test on stock clock – I’d recommend you completely clean up FSX and start from the scratch.
    2nd, ATI isn’t the best choice for FSX, it has never been. It could be that FSX:SE is working better, but P3D definitely is. As I have very little experience with ATI (many are running it successfully), I really cannot say if the problem is the GPU or your installation.
    The performance is reasonable and the stuff like HT shouldn’t make those texture problems – albeit HT should be off and HT set accordingly.
    Time-bounded I cannot give you more support, I hope you can resolve it!

    • Nick says:

      Thanks Kosta for the provided information.
      As for the ATI vs Nvidia,I know (now) the Nvidia would be the best choice,however when I made my mind up concerning my GPU I wasn’t aware of many things including FSX compatibility among others.I already started having thoughts about replacing my GPU with Gigabyte’s GTX 980Xtreme Gaming card.
      If there’s something worth mentioning I’ll post anew.Anyway thanks again for the help.
      BTW,do someone knows which is the best Alps scenery for FSX?I mean at least the whole Austria and as much as possible from the rest Alpine region irrelevantly of the country.I’ve seen Aerosoft’s “Austria Professional X”,it’s quite good but I’ve seen also what this guy did about something like this and from then on, everything else falls way to short for me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15kZ-uo9kBU.
      If I only could find that guy…!It seems rather impossible no mater how hard I tried.

  14. Ken Mole says:

    Some interesting comments here, lets just say, i am keeping my fingers crossed.

  15. Rod O says:

    I am so glad that DTG is moving out with a MSFS refurb. They would be fools not to realize they can become the heir-apparent to this heritage. All they need to do is match, or even beat, LM in eye candy and performance, line up the existing 3PD products to support it and offer it for $75 (the original list price of FSX Deluxe in 2006) and all those P3D hold outs, such as myself, will be gladly pressing the buy button.

    Nice to see the P3D purchase license being honestly referenced here. Those that got away with purchasing an academic when they clearly are violating its EULA are basically being dishonest. It angers me that LM does seem to give a rat’s ass about it; I imagine the P3D user base would shrink by at least 80% if LM required proof of eligibility.

  16. gspectre. says:

    Latest up date. Well, it’s 2016 and so far, all that’s really been released is that it will be 64 bit (so not compatible with any FSX add-ons).

    Martin created a Steam thread “Ask Dovetail Games about DTG Flight Simulator [Official]” (Jul 13 @ 4:47am):
    “Hi everyone.

    My name is Martin and I am the Community Manager for all flight simulation projects here at Dovetail Games. It is great to see so many of you already talking about DTG Flight Simulator.

    With so many threads popping up here in forum it is simply not possible for me to respond to everyone and keep track of everything.

    To this end I have created this thread where you can talk to me and ask questions about the upcoming sim. At the moment we are working hard on developing DTG Flight Simulator, and we are not ready just yet to lift the lid on the full extent of our plans. However, we are really interested in hearing your questions and what things you would like to us to show you in the build up to launch.

    As soon as I can start talking about DTG Flight Simulator in detail and answering your questions then I will. I am looking forward to talking to you all again soon.

    – Martin”

    so after a few hours of no questions, I posted this statement: (Jul 13 @ 7:35am)
    “I’m guessing there won’t be to many questions you can answer about software we know nothing about, other than the name.

    When you can start releasing information, I’m sure the questions will really start.”

    His reply to me : DTG_Martin [developer] Jul 14 @ 3:23am

    “Actually even the names is up for debate at the moment gspectre.

    – Martin “

  17. gspectre. says:

    Well, I guess we now know even less then we thought we did.

    What’s concerning is, some unnamed Flight Sim from DTG is due for release later this year and they haven’t even agreed on a name yet.

    • Kosta says:

      Very simple: just stop expecting anything when it comes to FS, and try to enjoy the best we have, which is P3D. Neither LM, nor DTG, nor NGiS are Microsoft, which was pushed by Bill Gates, the boss himself at that time…

  18. gspectre. says:

    Well, so far, I’m not expecting anything from DTG. I’m happy with FSX.

    I 1st started to get turned off DGT back when Martin created a Steam thread, asking people to post what they wanted in their new Simulators. After many months and over 1,400 posts, Martin finely came back to post a comment. I got the feeling he just wanted us to feel like part of the design team but in reality did not care what we had to say.

    He’s created a new thread where we can ask questions but so far, he’s only responded to 1 person that just gave him praise. Ignored all the posts prior.

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